After begining work on my property, one aspect keeps coming up. On site secure storage. Right now I have nothing. Unless I put something under a tarp and chain it to a tree there is no place for me to secure equipment.

I have considered purchasing a shipping container. But that would end up being an expensive eyesore for more than two grand. Plus it would not be too dificult to cut the lock off with a set of bolt cutters. I do have some techniques to protect locks from that, but applying it to the lock mechanism of a container would be difficult.

My first priority is to build a simple cabin. Made out of wood. Prefabricated in sections to be bolted together on site. This is mostly for a place to stay and keep some basic equipment. But soon after I will need something more stout.

The property lies on the south edge of Tornado Alley. The stretch across the United States from North Texas up through Nebraska. Tornadoes are a fact of life in this region. So I do need to prepare some type of emergency shelter incase this happens.

So I was thinking I could perhaps combine the two needs into one project. Building a structure which would be theft resistant. At the same time being a location where I could go to in case of severe weather.

Otherwise the building would be used as a supply shed. Perhaps as a "central plant" for utilities on the property. For example, I would store a generator there. As well as a engine driven water pump. Another idea if the structure was strong enough, would be to place some plastic (or ferrocement) water tanks on the top. Using the elevation on the building to help create a little bit of pressure.

Underground is not really an option at this time.

Ideally I would like to create a simple and small design which would be easy to replicate. The first one would end up being built back in the woods. This would limit the amount of heavy equipment I could use building it. On the other hand, it could give me an additional layer of security.... it is hidden from view.

What I have been thinking about is a 12x12 or a 10x20 one floor building. Built on a poured slab. Then stacked dryblock CMU's (Concrete Masonry Unit) with rebar. All backpoured with concrete.

It would be labor intensive. But the costs can be relatively low if the concrete was blended on site. With bagged portland cement, and drawing from two piles brought by dumptruck. One sand, the other gravel.

I was thinking that the roof could have angle iron supports. Then use the Wheeling deck plating to pour a top layer of concrete on.

The exterior would then get the stucco spread treatment. Later to be painted and sealed with winter time plant earth tones to match the terrain.

I doubt it would be pretty. But that is not my issue. What I am concerned about is keeping items safe in the MiddleOnowhere until I can live there full time.

What I was then thinking is that a fence could be erected around the building. Perhaps with a touch of razor wire on the top. Plant some everygreen Wisteria vine on the fence... and it could blend in.

Now this may sound drastic. But its a genuine problem I have. Secure storage is something I need to work out.

Thoughts and ideas are welcome!

Well, I've built with dry stacked blocks filled with concrete and rebar.
It certainly works, and requires little skill. You have a cement mixer, which is the only special tool needed.
It isn't really a low cost building method though.
How is the water supply on site? When we did the back wall of our barn this way we had to haul all the water to the site in 55 gallon barrels in the back of our pickup truck, so as long as you have a place close by that you can get water, this shouldn't be a problem.

One of the great advantages of building this way is that an unfinished structure can be left to weather as is, with no worry about what the winter will do to it.

I had all the block delivered at once to my home by a truck with a boom. Of course only a 4x4 pickup could get to the building site, so I had the truck place each pallet of block in my truck one at a time. Heidi and I drove to the building site and unloaded each pallet, restacking the blocks on the ground as fast as we could!
That was allot of work!

Get the sand and gravel delivered, and just bring in the Portland as you need it for each weekend of work. That way you don't have to worry about it getting wet.

I have a neighbor who scrounged up used steel framed doors with wire glass windows in them and built them into his concrete block house. The place is built like a bunker! Maybe you can scrounge up similar doors and windows.

Be sure to use plenty of windows, and white wash the interior.
Otherwise, this place would be bloody dismal.
If you really are all that concerned with security, build shutters that you can close over the windows and lock when your away.

I'd not build a cabin this way though - I'd be a bloody eye sore to me!
A concrete block garage is not a cabin I'd care to live in. I'd build a ferro-cement dome or something.
.
.
.
. I may be wrong Thed, but I think your going a bit over board on this security thing....
But anyway, living in a tornado area is reason enough for a stout building.

Hmmmm,
If you build a block house, make it a hexagon.
That would look cool, and I think it would blend more with the natural world around it. Place steel double doors in one side, and windows in the other five.

You could build a ferro cement roof, that would be faster and cheaper than a poured roof I bet. Maybe put a skylight in the middle.

Earth berm the sides up to the level of the windows. That will help keep it cool in the summer, and warm in the winter. No reason not to earth berm it, cement block walls work well for that.

Edit - Oh, and forget the slab. You don't need it. If it's just a storage building a dirt floor works fine. Otherwise, use a brick on sand floor.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of work to me.

For both security and tornado resistance, I'd consider using corrugated sewer pipe, in the "structural pipe arch" shape. Remember my underground bunker idea from a while back?



Instead of doing it underground, just lay it on the ground and cover it with soil.

How many weeks would it take to stack all those CMU blocks, mix and pour concrete, weld your roof up, install the composite metal deck, and pour the roof? With a structural pipe arch, all you do is buy a single length section of it. Weld an end cap on both ends, cut in a doorway that you can lock, and set it on the ground. Rent a dozer for a weekend so you can push up dirt over the sides and top.

You'd basically be building a hobbit house. It would appear from a distance as a small knoll or hill. You could plant whatever you wanted to on the sides and roof. That would give it tornado protection beyond anything else, aside from actually building underground.

And you could get whatever length section you wanted. It wouldn't increase your construction labor at all, except just requiring a little more dirt to be pushed up with the dozer. The size I modeled above is a standard 12' wide section. You mentioned a 12'x12' cabin anyway. So you could simply get a length of it that's 12' long. Or hell, go 20' or 30'.

Just rent your dozer, cut a shallow depression to fit the bottom arch so it can be laid on the ground with solid contact/bearing surface. Then start pushing dirt over it. Build your mound up over a weekend.

You could leave both ends exposed, with a door on each end for ventilation. Or you could get fancy and weld in a couple of "chimneys" on top that would poke out through the earthen roof for skylights and ventilation. The possibilities are endless.

But in the end, I think it would be a huge savings in time, labor, and cost. And it would be much more secure than anything I've seen proposed so far.

Water is one of my main issues. There is a 500 acre reservoir not to far from the property. I have a bunch of 5 gallon Sparkletts bottles. My plan was to back up to a boat launch, fill the bottles and go. The size being relatively man portable without being too cumbersome.

There is a chance that there is actually a spring on my property. I have a mysteriously dense and thick poison ivy forest that covers about an acre. I have been able to get back in there and find standing water like a seep when the rest of my property was dry. There is a possibility I can exploit this, or perhaps hand drive pipe a shallow well.

This in turn is one of the reasons I was thinking about an ultra stout building. So I could put a water tank ontop of it. Plastic or ferrocement. The location of the storage building as I conceptualize it is near this mysterious thicket in my property.



Sure Bob.

Something I have not mentioned... my sister is a painter. Mostly scenic art on large scale. Murals, back drops, that sort of thing. One of the cool things I am interested in the ferrocement construction is that it can be stained and sealed.

So many of the projects I have planned I hoped to work in conjunction with her, because she expressed interest in learning by application different colors and effects. So, its safe to say anything I do out of CMU, concrete, or cement will be covered with something.

Another application I wanted to try was suspending chainlink fence 6-8" off of CMU walls and ferroccement roofs. This would be a lattice to grow a variety of climbing vines on. Trumper creepers, wisteria, confederate Jasmine. What I was thinking is that it could be a great layer fo inuslation keeping sunlight off of the ferro cement. This works well with bermed walls.... just a thought.



I bet.

How many blocks do you think you were able to fit in your truck at one time?

I was thinking about spreading this project across 6-8 weekends in time. Where on a 12x12 or 10x120 building I would try to stack and pour 24-32" of block a weekend. Then come back the next weekend and do another 24" or so.

Still being in conceptual stage, I have wondered if it would be worthwhile to pick up the block as I needed it. Suppose I could do the math.. but experice in this matter is always listened to. Any breaking issues? Shift as you went up to your property?



It also brings down the cost reasonably.



Craigslist has been pretty helpful to me so far.

Check out this door for $100:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/mat/332694843.html


These list for around $500. 3 hour fire rating. Includes steel frame. 83 1/8" x 35 3/4" x 1 3/4"

I have seen them for around $60 as well. Thast not too bad.



Yes. Light is what occured to me as well. It would otherwise be a masoleum or a tomb.

I was thinking about using a fair quantity of glass block on the structure higher up on the walls. But I was not sure if it would or could jive with the basics of dryblock building.Offhand I do not know the exact shape or dimensions of the block.

Shutters are no problem either. I would prefer those over bars



The first cabin is going to be wood. Mostly because I can prefabricate it in my garage. Then bolt together on site. My idea was a 12x12 cabin with a 4x14 deck in front. Something like this:



But not so fancy and salvaged windows.




Perhaps.

Lets just say you would make the exact same call if you were in my shoes.

Thats a very workable idea. The issue I see is that I need to get to an onsite infractructure level to be able to handle that level of construction.



I am thinking 8-10 weekends. All that depends on how much help I can scrounge up.

Not to discredit the welded tube idea.. the idea is good.

The earthworks will take alot more time than what you perceive. Multiple earthmoving mahines will be required to acieve a mount like that. A dozer in itself cannot stack that high. Couple it with the earthen cradle needed to push dirt on top of it, I would imagine that you would need a bucket excavator, some type of compactor, and a dozer to pull it off. That dirt and fill also has to come somewhere.

One of the reasons why I have not had much time for the forums is that I have been trying to spend my spare time learning about how to execute the earthworks phase of my land this year. Specifically for some ponds, the perimeter berm and a shooting range with backstop and baffles.

My target is to be doing the earthworks the week of July 4th. Based on that learing expience, I would be better able to judge how feasible burying structures is.



Could be. Not denying your ideas either. But that will cost more than a CMU structure by far.

A John Deere 416e Backhoe rental delivered to the site is $520 for the day. $875 for the week. The rental price is always better for the week. What I have found is that they encourage entire week rentals. Typically the week price is the same a 3 single day rates. Then add delivery costs. A lower end Dozer is $1300 for a week (I do not know day price). Thats not counting fuel.

The priced of scrap steel is around $0.45 a pound. Processes steel being more. Any idea on the weights of that 12' drainage tubing?

I am thinking it could be possible to build a 12x12" CMU structure with a concrete roof in the woods, for under $2k. If I can find an alternative to the Wheeling decking even cheaper. Note: much of the steel and rebar I can already scrounge up.

The hobbit style buildings whch are steel intensive are great ideas. I like them. Hopefully plan to be able to do them. However, they are more feasible if I have a metalshop on site. Or at least a place to put a engine driven welder/generator. As well as other fabrication tools like a plasma torch. Air compressor. Infrastucture and equipment is needed to achieve these goals. This equipment is also not cheap.

Thats the thing I guess. I need to go low tech until I get some basic improvements there.

According to my book, it will be about 300 pounds per linear foot. So even at scrap prices, $135/ft. I didn't realize scrap had gotten that expensive. Just about two years ago, I remember my company sold off several tons worth of scrap beams at something like 12 cents per pound.

Anyway, I still think that the best security and protection from tornadoes would be with earth. Even if it's just like Bob suggested, building a berm up on the exterior walls.

I agree totally. Partial or fully underground is just a smart way to build. You will get no arguement from me. Its one of teh reasons why I have the earthworks phase first to build ponds. This will give me clean fill for future building out in the field.

The price of steel lately is insane. All metals are these days.

Actually that is one of the reasons I have gone so gung ho on getting land and am trying to get out of the city. The last time the price of precious and industrial metals shot up this high was just before WWII. There is some gloomy clouds on the horizon

Thats why I am building a wood cabin first. I hate wood. With a passion Steel is just to expensive these days. Thats one of the reasons why the ferrocement appeals to me. Its steel working with a low cost surface filler.

Given the location of where the cabins would go, getting a truck out there for any type of delivery would be a serious pain in the ass, unless you wanted to take a load one wheelbarrow at a time down the trail, which is just as much of a pain in the ass.

Another disadvantage to cement block bldgs surrounded by razor wire fences: it begins to look like a compound, and could attract negative attention. Granted, it is back in the woods, secluded, but all it takes is the curiosity of one trespassing hunter to spread word about what's going on back there.

If it were me, I'd much rather have something that resembled an ideal cabin, which is less fortifying, but could turn out to be more secure due to how inconspicuous it actually would be. Even concrete blocks with cedar siding on the exterior would look less threatening, while still having some strength.

I'm thinking a more normal style cabin, with a burt grummer style basement... if that could be done.


As far as short-term storage, I don't really have any suggestions, but for living, yurts could be something to consider. Not sure if you've mentioned yurts before...




One of the reasons the tweakers began stripping copper wiring and ripping off construction sites. Hell, even catalytic converters are bringing in big money and are being ripped off cars and trucks in parking lots during daytime hours...

Yup.

There would be some physical labor involved. I estimate that all material would have to be moved about 80-90 yards ffrom the drop off point to the construction site.



People have done it in the past

Seriously though. A 12x12 building is not that much material. We at least will use the wheel.



Thats worth considering. Going for cabin like camoflage has merit.

You are right however. Although its a small town of 113 people, I am willing to bet there is a strong romuor mill there. Probably if someone came across it, they would think its a meth lab. That could be a problem.




The tweakers are the number theft issue in that region. Crime is generally low in the county. But like any midwestern rural area has its meth issues. This is one of the reasons why I am looking for a secure structure.

Find an ATV with a dump trailer that you can borrow and life will be 100x better

I think the daily labor rate was a little cheaper back then!

It's too bad that "green machine" isn't cheaper to purchase and operate. Making your own bricks from the soil on your property would be perfect for this application.

The tweaker thing is a very good point. Last thing you want is to draw attention from folks thinking you're setting up a meth lab. And I would be willing to bet that since your property is known to the local yokels as being a good place for deer to hang out, that you will definitely have trespassers floating through there. Most of them innocent country folks looking to scare up game. But if they see a mini-compound hidden in the woods, word will spread. And some of them would probably try to break in, even if they're not tweakers themselves.

Personally, I wouldn't store anything valuable like a generator out there. Even in a "secure" building. Folks will do some pretty crazy things to steal equipment. We've had a lot of equipment stolen from our jobsite trailers, which are Conexes. When they couldn't cut the locks, they resorted to other methods. One time, they took a torch and burned a hole through the side so they could get in. In another case, they hot-wired a front end loader and ripped the doors off.

The more secluded and hidden your cabin is, the easier it is for them to break into. If they don't have to worry about being seen by passersby, or being heard by close neighbors, they can spend all the time and effort they want to get inside. So it's probably in your best interest just not to trust any structure to be secure, regardless of how well built it is.

For that reason, it may be better to spend your money instead on a large enclosed trailer that you can pull to the site when you need it, and then bring it home when you don't.

I am looking. Ill let you know if I find anything.




Yup. Too bad eh?

Just think of all the cool shit you could do with 25,000 people.



Thats what interested me in that machine so much. Too bad it cost so much. I have loam soil which goes down 30+ feet deep. No shortage of dirt. In time after the earthwork phase, I'll get a better idea of how much I can do with it.



Maybe. That I do not really know, whether the same people who hunt on or near the property would be likely to vandalize or break in. I tend to think not. As it is my extended neighbors there who have hunted on the property in the past.

My concern is possible tweakers cruising down the roads looking for opportunity. Building in the woods gives me and advantage. Especially because the road access to the location is obscure.

Your argument is good with Animators idea of clading a secure storage building to appear less bunker-like.

One of the ideas I had was to put a water tank on top of the structure. If I go with the 12x12 option for example. What I could do is make the structure appear as a pump house so it would not raise so many eyebrows. A water tank ontop of a CMU building would not be as much of a suprise to somone walking back in the woods.



Oh yes. I have worked enough construction sites to see what theives are wiling to do. Its part of the reason why I want something secure on my property.

By building in the woods, it eliminates the opportunity of using heavy equipment or vehicles for a smash-n-grab style break in. The trail back there is about 4' wide, so getting a 4x4 truck back there would be difficult. So would moving back the equipment to conduct a break-in.



True. That is the negative flip side of having the site hidden.

I guess what ts going down to is that I will need to put up "no hunting" & "No tresspassing" signs on the exterior of the property. Then go ahead and fence the back half of it in. This would reduce the amount of traffic I would get back there. But by no means would be fool proff.



I have considered that option. I have no place to keep the trailer other than at the property. Combine this with the cost of a decent trailer, and I would rather spend the fnds on making teh storage area more secure. even if I have to dump more money into it.

Without a doubt, I must solve this issue of on site secure storage. There are no other options on the table. It goes beyond just equipment as well. It would be the location or reserve supplies as well. If I have to spend more to do it, use double stacked dry block, and install bank style vault doors.. than so be it.

You can always make it easy to get into, then make them sorry that they entered.

That is an option Andy. But for some reason I think I would end up in the State Pen for something like that.

If no other options are available, I'd almost go for the enclosed trailer that you just pack up and pull to the property and back home, that way you don't leave anything out there. It would suck, but granted it would suck a lot less than having your stuff ripped off out in the middle of nowhere.


Or just live out there full-time.. in a yurt.

I wish I had room for a trailer. Already I have one car parked on grass. That is the car used durng the day so the City Code Enforcment officer never sees it parked on the grass in the back alley.

If I was to get a trailer, to be compliant, I would have to pour a slab to park it on. And get the permits to do it.

So in making secure storage at my rural property.. roll the costs of a decent trailer and a slab into the construction costs of the building.


Do you guys really think that a secure building cannot be made? I think its possible.

Security is relative. A determined thief can break into a building, no matter how secure it is. I guess the question here is how much money and effort you want to put into it, to protect whatever dollar value of equipment you have inside it.

Is it worth it to spend $2,000 on a structure to protect $1000 worth of equipment? Probably not. So I guess a lot will depend on what you're putting in there and how much it means to you. That will determine what level of security you build. But you should go into it knowing that even the best security will only delay a thief, not stop him entirely. And given the remoteness of your location, he has all the time he wants to get into it, if he really wants to.

Wouldn't you agree that it would be foolish to say, even on the internet, how much or what you were going to store in it. Lets say, hypothetically of course, that it would hold things of value worth more than a few grand.

Could if be done with a budget of $2k? or $5k?

This is something that I cannot get around that easily. Secure site storage has to be done. Its a step which I need to complete to keep a move out there off schedule. The earliest I could start this project would be Fall of this year. So I like to bat ideas around first before they need to be done.

I will have the option to insure it if need be. Still, I would rather just have peice of mind that it would be difficult to get in. The location would make it difficult yo get heavy equipment to the site. May make construction a PITA. But so would breaking in.

How about a simple shed with motion-detecting activated cameras. If you could get a wireless internet signal out there, you can monitor the cameras from your computer. Some even offer the option of calling or emailing you whenever there is movement. Lock one of those cameras in the shed with a decent battery and hope for the best. Being motion-activated, if it's inside, it won't be on, and therefore wouldn't need a whole lot of power.

If you do get notified, best bet would be to call a neighbor or the sheriff, or both, and have them out there, since you're so far away.

'Course that would all depend if there's a wireless signal out there, which there probably isn't... just throwing out an idea...

I meant it more as a rhetorical question... something you should consider; I wasn't asking you to give us a list.

So knowing that you'd have considerable investments stored inside, it would justify spending whatever it takes to make it as secure as reasonably possible.

I think you've got the right idea, taking advantage of two of the three main concepts of security: keeping it out of sight, and making it fairly impenetrable. The third one would be an alarm or other device to scare off thieves if they do happen to penetrate the defenses.

That one's tricky. It could just be an audible alarm, designed to make enough noise that any thieves would want to de-ass the area for fear of getting caught. But even an alarm system that reports back to you would be fairly useless, since it takes so long to get there from your house. It would suck to be responding to false alarms all the time, in the middle of the night. Or having the alarm go off without your knowing about it, and annoying the neighbors.

I don't think motion-activated lighting would do any good. Not if it's hidden in the woods. All that will do is give them light to work by.

So that's really the crux of the issue. The remoteness from your home makes it near impossible to monitor it or respond to a break-in. You'd have to rely almost entirely on physical security, which I think you already know. I think the answer is obvious: you're going to have to spend whatever it takes to make this thing secure.

It seems like you're set on the CMU idea. Which is not a bad idea. As long as you're filling the cells with concrete, reinforced with continuous rebar, and solidly weatherproofing the exterior (which will need some attention to detail if you're dry-stacking them), it should be stout. Your weak points will then be the doors and windows.

The more I think about it, you've got a good idea with a composite metal/concrete roof. We've seen a huge increase lately down in my area with thieves breaking into structures through the roof, since it's usually the weak point. A solid concrete roof will nix that plan for them.

So the doors and windows would be the most obvious points of entry. If you're serious about protecting your contents at all cost, go with a secure metal door. Hell, build yourself a frame with angle iron and sheet metal faces, and fill the sumbitch up with concrete, say, 3" or 4" thick. That way, they can't burn through it with a torch.

If you have alternative ideas to using CMU's, let me know.

CMU's have the advantage of being relatively portable and low in cost. My crude estimate is that a 8x12' wall would acquire 108 blocks. Obviously this does not account for windows doors, and half blocks needed. Around me I can get basic 8x8x16" CMU's for around $1.25ea. I am willing to bet if I shopped around I could find them cheaper. All things considered thats not too bad. Lest round up and say $150 per 8x12' wall used for CMU's. Thats hard to beat.

Sure I could stretch wire and rebar for a ferrocement application. The issue being, I would want thicker walls to help resist impact burglary attempts. In time I plan to do alot more with ferrocement. But not for this starting out.


It all comes down to the door the way I see it. How hard is it to penetrate.

I was thinking about going with a used fire/security door like shown above in the thread. A double door would be even better like Bob suggested. But this is an issue I could go either way on.

I was then thinking that inside I could use Knaack style work boxes. These would be placed first on the bare slab. Then anchored to the slab. The building would actually be built around these. That way, there is no real easy way to be able to break in and remove the container.

Another thought was to have a door on the outside be a first layer of security. That door would open into a "lesser" storage area. Then inside that area would be another door to go inot a "Greater" security area. I could then use one of these for example:



http://homelandsafes.com/EconomyVaultDoor.php

QUOTE

Turn your closet or concrete room into a safe room. This impenetrable vault door will allow you to make your own walk-in vault. As time goes on, collections grow.An economy vault door will give you enough secure storage to keep your collection growing. A vault door is very easy to install all you have to do is build your door opening to any of the sizes listed. After slipping the door into the existing opening, bolt your frame to the concrete opening and you are done. We have a wide selection of vault doors, if dimensions are a problem give us a call, we could build a custom door to fit your needs for less than everyone else. Keep your family safe, build a Tornado safe room' in your home. If a tornado room is what you are building, we have the door you need. With an internal release you can be sure you would not be locked in your safe room. You could also use it as a panic room, bomb shelter and security shelter.

These start at around $1500 and go on up. Thats where this project gets pricey.

These are just some ideas.

I fully understand that anyone with the right motivation, skill, and time can break into anything. That I do not deny. What I am looking for is a reasonably secure storage area until I transfer my homestead out there.

Thed, you mentioned posting your property. I have land in New Hampshire in what used to be the middle of nowhere and solved some of my security issues using the nieghbors. i went to the 3 nearest large land owners and told them I was going to post my property. I told them that I knew they had probably been hunting the land for years and I wanted them to know they were still welcome. I told them I was posting because I was going to put up a campsite and small cabin and I wanted to keep it secure. In exchange for hunting I just asked them to keep an eye on the place and call me if there was a problem. It's been over 20 years now and these people still watch my land for me when I'm gone. I also think that because they are local and want the hunting they treat the land as their own and other locals know to keep off.

What about your concrete panels? Could you fabricate some more of those? That might be easier than doing all the concrete pouring on-site. Build the panels at home and weld them together out there, if you have a generator and welder (which I'm sure you do).

The way I see it, if you can avoid having to tote raw materials to the site, you're better off. Like you said before. Pre-fab the pieces at home and simply assemble them on-site. There's no way I'd want to have to deliver all that raw cement, gravel, sand, and water to the site and then have to mix it in place and pour it when you don't even have large vehicle access to the site. But you already have some of your concrete panels made. Just make more and tote them to the site in batches.

If you got creative, you could make a structural dome with them. Or a quonset-hut style structure, using the panels. Then you wouldn't have to worry about a separate roof at all. You'd only have one system to consider.

Granted, it would be a lot of welding on site. But you'll have the equipment for it. And you could stucco the exterior for weatherproofing, in case you don't want to seal everything with weld material. Then paint over the stucco with a camouflage pattern in greens, blacks, and browns.

That would kick ass.

That is perhaps the best alarm system type security idea so far.

Perhaps in time I could forge that type of relationship with my neighbors. But that willtake time. I am hoping that as I do projects out there I can get a better feel for them. As it stands now, I have met only one immediate neighbor. He seemed ok.






It would be pretty cool.

A few years ago my dad & I did some work on a bolt together dome idea. Basically it as 16g sheet laser cut into triangles. It had braked flanges on the ends which bolted together to make a geodesic style dome.

That was before the war.

The thing that gets us these days is the price of metals.Its kind of f'ed up really. For over a decade I have been thinking and cooking up lots of cool things I wanted to build on my own land. Now that I finally got it, steel is so expensive that many of the ideas I have had are no longer practical.

The saving grace is that ETDbob sparked me into looking into ferrocement. Which I think may be just the ticket for many things.

The concrete panel construction for buildings was based on the premise that they would be applied to a steel super structure. A frame work where chain hoists and come-a-longs could be use to manipulate panels into place. These projects now cost 3+ times as much as they did in 2001. Enough to make me reconsider its application.

For a roof, doors, and perhaps shutters the concrete pannels still has a great application potential. Its just no longer as cheap as it was.

Oh man, only Thed would think to beautify a building by wrapping it in heavy steel mesh!


Sorry, I just couldn't resist



I really would not recommend that. Especially with a plastic tank!
Having a water tank up there will heat the water right up. Sunlight will filter through the walls of a plastic tank and you'll have algae growing in no time.

Warm water full of green slime ( or chlorine. I'd choose green slime over chlorine ) to drink. Nope, not the way to go. Ideally, a water cistern should be below grade to keep the water cool and free from algae. This is especially important if the water is being left in the tank for long periods of time.

You'll not have enough water pressure to run any appliances like a hot water heater, and there are much simpler ways to take showers and such without having to pump a huge tank on the roof full of water.


3,800 pounds of 'em. Mind you, I only went a short distance. ( my poor abused F-150! )
I'll dig out my journal and look up how much material we used.
Off hand, I think we used 280 blocks all total.


I think you'd get a better price buying the blocks all at once. I certainly did. You'll have to shop around to see.
I'd much rather pay 65 bucks to have the whole load delivered to site, than have to haul blocks up every weekend! You'll save so much time having them delivered.
Time you can spend stacking blocks.
Remember, fortune smiles on the efficient!

Nothing broke or shifted, and I had to crawl down at an angle across a very steep slope in 4x4 low.

Thed, stacking a little cabin with blocks is easy. The deal breaker you got is that your unwilling to get a pickup truck back to the building site.
Otherwise, your compounding the work needed, and the time it will take to get the job done, far beyond reason.
Your land is as flat as a pancake.
Get a chain saw and cut what trees down you need to, real close to the ground. Just drive over the stumps. After the place is done you can plant new trees.



This is a real cute little cabin. Is that a loft up top? If so, just make sure you have fantastic cross ventilation up in the loft, or it will be to hot to sleep in!
Even up here where I live, most lofts are just to durn hot to sleep in after a summers day.

Thats me

Living in moist, termite ridden, tornado prone country does that.





You are right. Those are some things to be concerned about.

They do make black plastic tanks designed to limit and minimize algae growth. I was thinking that using one could be a decent way to get a warm water source for gray and black water applications. A 12x12' CMU/concrete building would be a great base for a water tank. It would not be to hard to raise up a tank another 10-24' max. That height being enough to add some pressure for simple applications. Like filling a toilet, some pressure for a faucet, or perhaps enough for a shower head.




I wish it was that simple. Although the property is relatively flat, it is deep soil. There are numerous drainage gulleys across the land. These make transportation by truck a bit difficult. As the floor of the drainage areas have steep banks and drop down 6-8 feet easily.

I do not own a 4x4 truck. My F-150 could not be brought back into the woods short of building a bridge, adding a culvert, or earthworks building a slope down to the floor of the gulleys and back up again.

If it was a simple as just cutting a road back there I would do it. But its not. Perhaps with Animator's monster truck it would be possible.



I will start a different thread on the wood cabin.

No.. no loft. That would be horrible. My pan was to have opening windows at that hieght to promote ventilation. Most Texas pre-A/C architecture has tall ceilings with windows that vent at the tops and bottoms. So, in almost all of the building applications I have been thinking about tall ceilings are included. Its one of the reasons why I have so much interest in the ferrocement barrel vault. Has alot of potential down here.

oh ANYTHING is possible


give me a chance to regear the front axle, and get some new front brakes, and we're good to go

and possibly a new set of tires...


would probably need a wider path back to the site though...