As I understand the word "Freesteader", it means one who embraces the ideals of true liberty AND one who is self-reliant. That being the case, I wanted to discuss planning for the future.

The question is: What are you, have you, and will you be doing to make yourself and your family as self-reliant as you can? or, more aptly, What are your plans for becoming a Freesteader in every sense of the word?

Personally, I don't think anyone here hasn't already heard my story elsewhere, but I'll be redundant for anyone who possibly hasn't.

What we have done: My wife and I purchased a home on 10 acres that was sparsely forested and mostly grassland. Its good land for husbandry, but needs raised beds for crops due to the rocky landscape. It has a loafing barn and 1/2 acre corral for livestock. Since purchasing it, we've built a small garden of five garden beds and supplemented our vegetable intake at about 1/2 of what we purchase. The grass on our land was cut short and kept that way by the previous owner and her tractor. We have taken on a more natural approach and have let the landscape return to nature. The grasses have grown up anywhere from ankle to head high depending on the location. A small wetland area formed on the front of our property, but we fear that the nat gas industry ruined it when they buried a nat gas line up there last year. We dug out a water garden that is 17' long x 11' wide x 2' deep. That translates to 2200 gallons of water. We'll be using rain catchment to fill it. I have a bunch of 30 gallon barrels that I have "inherited" from various sources and have been using them as rain barrels, catching rain off the house and barn. They stay full constantly. We have acquired all of the equipment necessary and have learned how to can, dehydrate, and otherwise preserve our extra produce. Since my wife and I met, she really put a hurtin' on me and taught me how to become debt free. Now, around $15,000 later, we have paid down all of our (my) debt except for a few more car payments and the mortgage.

What we are doing this year: We are working on cutting nature trails through our property and at certain interval where the ground seems more fertile, we are cutting out new areas for gardening. Small plots that will be located a way from each other so as to reduce the chance of cross pollination of similar species. I'll be headed to the lumber yard tonight to purchase lumber and weld-wire fencing to build chicken tractors. We hope to start purchasing weld-wire panels to hang on the corral fencing (currently barbed wire) in order to become goat-farmers. We'll be buying the water garden liner and getting it set up. The plan is to use a couple of the rain barrels as sand filters. I've designed (on paper and in theory) a system of mechanical and biological filtration/aeration components that will utilize solar powered pumps, sand filters, waterfalls, a short stream bed, fish, pond plants, etc. to keep the water managable. I hope to have it completed and tested at the outfall to see if it is potable as it re-enters the pond. I figure the system will reach biological balance within a couple of years, so I hope to have a viable source of potable water storage. We'll also be landscaping the backyard and I hope to do so with 90% of the plant life being edible veggies, culinary and medicinal herbs, edible and pesticidal/repellant flowers (i.e. nasturtium, marigold, painted daisy.) We'll finish paying off the car (we've been adding an extra $50 a month, and now, since my wife got a raise, we'll be putting down an extra $250 a month) then take the entire car payment and roll it into the monthly mortgage payments.

What we are going to do in the coming years: Hopefully we'll get goats and rabbits. We'd like to concentrate on smaller livestock options as they seem to be the most convenient option for my family. We want to plant trees, especially producers. We'd like pecans, peaches, apples, plums, pears, walnuts, cherries, etc. We want to increase the growth of our Osage Oranges as a living fence. We'd like to set up some berry "hedges" with raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, currants, elderberries, etc. We'd like to build onto the house, enclosing the deck into a sunroom. We'd like to expand the decking further into the yard to bring us to the yard/the yard to us. We'll continue putting an extra $600 a month on the mortgage, increasing the amount if Connor's (our 5 mo old) financial requirements decrease and our salaries increase, until the house is paid off (we estimate at an extra $600 a month, the 30-year mortgage should be paid off in 12 years). At that point, we'll be debt-free, owners of a property that has soaked in our blood, sweat, tears, and souls, and we'll be true Freesteaders.

Now, everyone's idea of self-reliance and the word "Freesteader" is bound to be different, so don't feel shy about posting to this. I really am interested to hear from EVERYONE on this board about what their plans are for becoming a Freesteader. Even if your idea of Freesteading has nothing to do with "buying the farm", even if your idea of self-reliance includes apartment living, I am interested in everyone's plans as each of us may have ideas that help others to become more self-reliant.

AA

What did you do for fencing? Fencing 10 acres would be a pretty expensive endeavor (lots of work too). My wife won't let me put up anything that will ruin the view but I would like to put up something that keeps the animals in. I will be working on a garden and a couple crops this spring. (corn and barley). I would like to own a farm someday but in the mean time maybe a little "mini-farm" will do.

BTW if you are interested in water storage Tractor Supply Co has water tanks that are reasonable.

The only real fencing we have on our property is barbed wire around the corral. We hope to eventually install a split rail fence (wife has always wanted one) with weld-wire fencing tacked onto the inside.

AA

Depends on what kind of fence you build. A standard 3- or 4-wire fence using T-posts isn't that expensive. It is a lot of work, though, especially if you have hard rocky ground. But for you guys who live in nice soft dirt, driving T-posts is a breeze. The only real work involved is at the corners and gates where bracing is important. Once the posts are up, running the wire is easy. Install ratchets in-line for easy maintenance, and you'll thank yourself later.

What's even easier is electric tape. And it can actually look pretty good too, as fences go, if you use the right material.

Are plans right now just consist of paying of debt, and we are doing pretty good too. I'm down to one vehicle and two credit cards. With the wife once again working and income tax returns coming back in it should go fast from here on out.

After that it is going to be save save save so when we come back to the states I'll have 3 years left in the military before I can retire and we will have enough money to start looking for property. Personally I really like the idea of moving to KY or maybe VA or WV and getting as much land as we can afford. 10, 20, acres at this point in time seems reasonable but the more the better.

Then our plan is pretty similiar to yours. I grew up with a big ass garden in the backyard and I've helped my grandmother can things so we got that one covered, no learning curve required and by then my kids will be old enough to be put to work. As far as the animal thing goes I'm not to sure.

As I've stated many times before I'm pretty much a pussy when it comes to gutting animals, even fish. Get the guts gone and I don't mind so much the skinning and I've found that the butchering part isn't bad at all but I just can't seem to get over the first part. Maybe a few chickens but they can be messy and eggs are cheap anyway. I don't think a cow for milk would really be to cost effective but it might be cool to have around to get the milk and have a fresh dairy supply.

I guess alot depends on the money supply, ambition, and how much land we can get. Gardens are a must though, I miss being able to go out and grab 90% of dinner out of the back yard.

Come to Texas, we need more Freesteaders!

My greatest ambition in life has always been to become a modern day peasant.

You'd think this is an easy goal to accomplish, but believe me, it takes some doing.
By 1999 my wife and I were already set up in our little straw bale cottage in the woods.
We were completely off grid and debt free and have stayed that way ever since.

In the years since, we've worked at improving our homestead. We've added gardens, a pond, built all sorts of out buildings and have gotten horses, goats and rabbits.

Our biggest hurdle is slowly weaning ourselves off of modern consumerism.
We need to get to where we are comfortable living on only a few thousand dollars a year.

In 4 1/2 years when I hit 50, I'll be quitting my day job and I'll simply stay home as a full time homesteader. What little cash we'll need will come from my meager investments.

With all the free time I'll have, I expect to easily be able to produce all the food stuff we'll need, except bulk grains and hay.

I was a genuine AYM ( Angry Young Man ) most of my life. Slowly I came to realize that I was simply beating my head against the wall, and that there was simply nothing I could do to drag this country, kicking and screaming all the way, back to Personal Responsibility and Liberty.
What I could do, was withdraw from much of society, and live a quiet life apart in the forest.

By living simply ( some would say primitively ) and turning our backs on all the modern conveniences such as running water and electricity, we have freed ourselves of much of involvement with the civilization around us, and it keeps our tax burden to a fraction of what most people pay.
I am powerless to stop the evil things our Gov't does in this world, but I can at least reduce the size of my involuntary donations to their treasury. Sooner or later, The Man will go bankrupt and the whole house of cards will crumble, just as it did with the Soviet Union. It is inevitable, and in my own infinitesimal way I am happily contributing to that downfall by reducing my economic activity and Patriotic Consumption of Petroleum Products. ( PCPP )

We can turn our backs on the world, and our focus is shifting more and more inward, concentrating on the little world of our homestead which we jokingly call Planet Bob.

It looks like we have similar plans, but I have 10 years left in the military. I would like to be paying on some land while I'm in the military, then build a house on it when I retire, but haven't been able to buy any land yet. I'm working on getting debt free. I guess I'll buy the land when I retire. I would like atleast 20-30 acres, but preferably more than that. If the land has a good sized pond that doesn't dry up, I would be ok with 5-10 acres. I've been thinking about buying in MO or TN, but there are alot of good areas in the south and midwest that have reasonable prices for land so I'm not ruling anything out.

Having my own spread is so far off that I can't even begin to put together solid plans.

Eventually, I'd like to find some land... here in God's country... forty wooded acres minimum... away from highways, cities, etc. (as Bob and others have pointed out, those are subdivision magnets) where I can establish a sustainable source of water, keep a viable garden, and hunt comfortably.

Obviously, what I just described is going to cost a lot in terms of time, sweat, and especially money.

But it's worth it. Right?

To hot, to far away from family, and honestly, I think that middle southern easternish part of the states is about is a pretty as it gets. Besides do you really want another damn yankee moving in to town.

One more Yankee won't make a difference either way. One more Freesteader will. I'd say the North Eastern third of the state is the best. We get rain and sunshine. Once or twice a year it even gets a little chilly.

The Panhandle is flat and featurless. The Big Bend region is pretty, but utterly useless except for windfarms. The Southern Plains are pretty as well, but not overly usefull for a Freesteader. The Hill Country is nice, but I wouldn't want to farm that soil. The Gulf Coast isn't bad, except the people suck. That just leaves the praries and piney woods of East Texas.

I haven't included my thoughts on this yet because I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing.
My wife and I have been looking around for another house. We originally were concerned about the school district, but now that doesn't figure into the decision. We have to have a place that doesn't stretch our budget any thinner, but has all the things we're looking for, that's a tough one too.
I want a well, a place to put a garden (established if possible), a barn, some kind of alternative heat for the house, and a vault under the porch for guns and such. I've applied for a few jobs down South by DTH, but none of them have panned out. We've looked at a million places, but we're notorious tire kickers.
We found two places to look at this weekend, one is south of KC, it has cheap taxes, it's on rural water, but also has a well, it has two wood stoves in addition to a geothermal heat pump system, it's on 10 acres, has an established garden, a big pantry, a 30x50 shed, and a vault under the porch. Sounds perfect right? You'll notice I didn't mention the price. It’s at the upper end of what we're looking for. One other good thing is that the people are gone, they've moved out of state, and are making two house payments. They are willing to look at whatever financing arrangements we offer, so who knows.
The other place is West of KC in KS. The taxes are higher, but it's still zoned Agricultural, so they're not bad. It's on rural water with a well, has several barns and a chicken coop, 25 acres, established garden, backs up to the KS river (which is good for lots of things), and a couple fireplaces. The house is like 100 years old, doesn't have central air, no basement, and hasn't been lived in for 3 years. I don't know if there's a tornado shelter (root cellar) or not. If not that'd be high on the list, I'm thinking a nice big "root cellar" dug into a hill somewhere inconspicuous. It's cheap, but not exactly right, and it needs some work. It's paid for, so the people are pretty negotiable. But my wife doesn't have her KS license yet, so that means no commission on the sale.
I hope we decide what to do soon, I want to get started. We'll see how it goes.

I've been looking on Craigslist. there are a lot of chickens, rabbits, goats, pigs, horses, and cows for sale on there. Reading the adds made me understand how clueless I am when it comes to taking care of most of them. I have to work on that too.

Edited to fix acreage on first one, not as much as I remembered.

Is it in Lawrence?

Not that far, about halfway between.

Sounds like it may not be too far from that area with the speedway, Cabelas, outlet mall, etc... There is a lot of cool stuff there. Some times I take the family there and stay at the Great Wolf Lodge. I wouldn't mind living in that part of eastern KS, but not too close to those areas that are growing fast.

I looked it up again, it's kinda Desoto-ish. I have to see it, even if it eliminates it, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't at least check it out.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=38....mp;t=h&z=18
Click to view attachment

That could be worth checking out. Especially if you work in KC. A lot of people are moving to the Lawrence area and commuting to KC. I would be a little worried that the way KC Kansas and Lawrence are growing, that the area in between will get squeezed out some day. It could be a good investment. It may be worth a lot of money someday, but become a lot closer to town than it was originally.

My girlfriends mom lives in lawrence and she commutes to the Sprint campus everyday. It isn't that bad of a drive, the turnpike is a smooth drive.

I have to disagree with your conclusion, Chris. Unfortunately, the northeastern area of Texas is way overpopulated. It is not where I would recommend that a Freesteader move to, if he's moving to Texas. The piney woods of East Texas are OK, but (like the Gulf Coast) the people there suck. Pretty much everything east of the Brazos is redneck pseudo-wannabe-Cajun territory.

IMHO, the best place for a Freesteader in Texas is just north/northwest of the Hill Country. Even including parts of the Hill Country. Yes, much of it is rocky/hilly and difficult to farm. But there are isolated pockets of wonderful farming soil. Fredericksburg, for example, is known for its peaches. Just up the road from me in Medina, they have tons of apple orchards and huge flat fields with all manner of crops. Since the Hill Country is at a higher elevation than the coasal prairies, we get cooler temperatures in the summer and often more rain in fall/winter. But if I were defining the 'best' area of Texas to live in, based on low population and farmability, I'd have to say it's a triangle between Junction, San Angelo, and Llano. That general area is plenty livable (as generations of early settlers could attest to), and isn't quite as crowded as the eastern half of the State. There is more of a true Texas culture there, too, that is not diluted by urban interests. Folks there tend to be genuine, generous, and they value being left alone by government. They like their space.

Just my opinion!

"true Texas culture"? You stuck up snob. I'm sure every Texan thinks that about the area they live in. Most just don't say it.

I mean traditional Texas culture - not yuppie metrosexual stuff like you guys have up there.

Let's face it - Texas was settled by white guys under Mexican influence. It was settle primarily by people who wanted land for cattle or who wanted their own space. That's the culture I'm talking about - the same culture that spawned the revolution against Mexico. I still see that culture being predominant in the area I'm talking about, and really throughout the southern-central and western-central areas of Texas. The eastern portion of the State has pretty much changed. I attribute this to many things, like population density and the influx of other ethnicities and cultures. Whether it's politically correct or not, you must admit the concentration of blacks, Asians, and other non-traditional ethnicities/cultures are in the eastern half of the State. I'm not saying there's anything necessarily 'wrong' with the change in overall culture they've brought to that part of the State. I'm just saying that it has fundamentally changed the politics and the way society operates there.

The area of the State I'm referring to has remained very traditional in most aspects, and in my opinion those traditional cultural influences remain most closely tied to libertarian beliefs or what I would think a typical Freesteader would be looking for. Less government intrusion, less socialist programs, etc.

I think it's a mistake to lump all of the people and land in Eastern Texas into one group. I think that's something you'd chide someone for if they were to do it.

Delta county in East Texas has a lower population density than Llano county. Livestock, crop, and diary production in East Texas is almost three times what it is in your area. And Dallas doesn't count as East Texas.

Keep tellin yerself that

I guess you make up any defintion you want. I can't find anyone besides you, and possibly Tobus, that consider Dallas part of East Texas.

Politically speaking, they are in one group.


I don't recall counting Dallas as "East Texas". It is, however, in the eastern half of Texas, which I still contend is heavily populated compared to the western half of Texas.

I can see where this thread is going: "my part of Texas is better than yours". That's not my intent. I'm just saying that if a person were looking to move to Texas for some affordable land, liberty, and "breathing room", I would think that the less dense areas of Texas that have cheaper land prices and less political pressure would be ideal. It is my opinion that the western half of the State still retains a more traditional culture than the eastern half, due to population density and cultural/ethnic influence.

It's called I-35. Everything east of I-35 is East Texas.



That's cause East Texas has been overrun by outsiders. Most people don't move to Texas to move to West Texas where there's little water, lots of dust, small trees, and cactus.

Really? I'd be interested if the voters in East Texas voted radically different than the people in your region. Culture in your area might be better, but land productivity is much lower.



The western half of the state is sparsely inhabitated for a reason. It can't sustain higher populations. There's a reason they call West Texas the "dry plains". Land productivity drops dramatically when you go west of Dallas/Fort Worth.



Cheaper land is sometimes cheaper for a reason. It's worth less. Define ideal? A quick search shows your land prices don't look alot better than the price I paid.



Drought map

Texas Crop report

Yes, land productivity is lower. Which doesn't mean much more than a hill of beans to someone who isn't a farmer that's plowing every available square inch of soil. To an average homesteader, the land is plenty capable of providing what he needs (again, evidenced by generations of settlers in the area dating back to the early 1800's).


I agree. Which takes me back to what I said in my previous post. For someone looking to move to Texas for breathing room and privacy, less populated areas are probably more ideal than densely populated areas.

I'm glad you posted that map, Chris. The area I'm talking about is in the light green portion, transitioning into the light brown - the cusp between the hill country, plains, and arid west.




Have you ever spent any time in that area?

Yes I have. I've spent quiet a bit of time in Llano. A friends dad lives there and we go every year. Maybe Llano is a bad example, you decide. Have you spent any time in East Texas? Not driving through mind you.

I like the Hill Country, it's pretty. Few places I liked better for motorcycle riding. But it wasn't productive enough for me, I'm spoiled.

First of all.. lets go to the Map. These are the generally accepted regional names in Texas:



My place of Freesteading is in the sparsely populated Blackland Prairie in NorthEast Texas. It is in the 5th least populated county in Texas. I blanket reject that this area is overcrowded. Pure silliness. Its not, and I like it that way. It may fill in one day. But that will be at the same rate as other areas in Texas.

The area Tobus mentioned is visually awesome. No doubt about that. But much of moving there has to do with ones background and personal skills. For example, Horseback riding in Northeast Texas would probably be boring. Lots of mud, and thick forests where there is water, and open rolling plains.

In Central Texas or the Concho Valley, its far more interesting for that. Soil/Ground conditions are typically firmer. There is also dynamic changes in elevation. Lastly.. there is rock. Exposed rock. Rock I would have to dig over 150ft down to perhaps reach. But here is the thing.

We in Northeast Texas on the Blackland Prairie can grow things. In dense plantings with high yield. This is due to the silty black soil and high levels of moisture. The Blackland Prairie moves south and west across the state. But as it moves into a more arid region, the prairie turns to mesquite and cedar dominated scrub.

One can scrape out a living anywhere. East or West Texas. I however chose the ever fertile and sparsely populated North East Texas in the end because of water. ANY person who has lived in Texas knows how important water is. I do not have much faith in the current structure holding western civilization together. So it seems to me that living in water challenged and technology dependent arid regions came at a risk. I have faith in my resourcefulness. But not in the masses who live around me.

North East Texas is not pretty if you like pretty Hollywood cowboy sunsets. But the deck is highly stacked in our favor for flood plain style agriculture and aquaculture.....

...for at or around $2k per acre.

Cheaper and more wooded the farther North and East you go towards Oklahoma and Arkansas.

I have looked for property in the Permian Basin and the Concho Valley. The farther south an west you head there is cheap acreage. But its just space. Beautiful space I will add... its great. I love the desert and arid plains. But the lower cost of the land does not always mean good useful value. Much of the rural land I was looking at in the range I could afford cost more than what I paid for mine.

For a Freesteader to get Land in Texas, you have two ways to do it. Acreage with house on it or Raw land. If the acreage has a house, you can use regular old mortgage companies. These are often at artificially high prices because of the ease of getting a mortgage.

The other option is Raw Land. If you get under 20 acres, most lenders will still deal with you with a slightly jacked interest rate. More than 20 Acres and life gets hard. You need cash. 20% down. Sometimes they will take 15%, but 25% is better. Then you have to go through a AgBank/Credit lender which is more geared towards farms.

Because of their direct Agricultural bias, they are far less likely to issue a note for "recreational land" which most of those lenders think of people who only have $40-75k to spend total on acreage. What many do not think of, is that "bargain" 200 acres West Texas Acreage which is is only $500 per acre is not a deal at all. Because its max Lender Appraisal value is only $250 per acre. That means they will only lend you what they think its worth. You have to make up the difference. I know this from first hand experience.

Now.. this is not to say that "Central Texas" is a not a good place. Its wonderful. I like it, and if I could figure out how to pulling off living there I would do it. I actively researched it, and found I cannot thrive at the income levels I would get there. North East Texas is different.

North Georgia is nice.

I don't know of anybody up here who considers the metroplex "East Texas". I live in DFW, and to do so would be an insult to the real East Texans, you know, the ones who live in the woods, not the plains. DFW is a Yankee island in the state, and East Texas is genuine Texico. The landscape and culture are completely different. I'm surprised you would lump them into the same category.

ETA: Apparently that's not what Tobus meant. So just consider this post unprovoked observations.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!

Click to view attachment

All your dry ass soil are belong to you.

LOL, that was awesome Nidrah.


Pure silliness? If it's a rural county that's within driving distance of populated counties, it's only a matter of time before that county is overcrowded too. That's the unfortunate side-effect of owning land anywhere remotely close to population centers. They grow outward exponentially. I know this from first-hand experience. I thought that being two counties away (and over 50 miles away) from San Antonio was going to be far enough, but it wasn't. I'm kind of stuck in the same way you are, Theduardo, in that I make a good living working in the city. I just don't want to live close to one. If I were looking to just live rural, and my work didn't revolve around a city, I would have to be at least a hundred miles from one to feel like I had some space.

Anyway, when you say the "5th least populated county in Texas", are you referring to raw population numbers, or population density? When I look at the map below, I don't see any counties in northeast Texas that are all dark green.




In fact, that's a pretty darn useful map. You can see the "Concho Valley" area's relative population quite easily. While it's not as low as extremely arid regions, it is lower than most of the eastern half of Texas. You can even see where San Angelo is by the tiny red mark. Just east of San Angelo, across to Llano, seems fairly promising. To me, anyway.

It's also interesting to note that I-35 pretty much divides the State in population numbers. Everything east of I-35 has a yellowish tinge to it, where everything west of I-35 tends to turn greener on the map.


Hmm. Yes, the northern area of the Hill Country thins out from live oak and cedar into mesquite and cedar, and then to just mesquite. But as I'm sure you know already, San Angelo does have good soil. It's got a huge cotton industry (which you see driving in, around the town of Wall). Cotton is a pretty demanding crop. So it's not like the soil won't grow anything but scrub.

You hit the nail on the head with the water issue. But it doesn't take high technology and vast regional infrastructure to do well in that area. A well with a windmill has sustained many a homesteader.

This is an interesting topic, and it's clear that we are all biased toward where we actually live.

Overlay that with the water map and it makes sense.



This is the main reason we have water problems in Texas. Getting to the water isn't hard. If the water in the area isn't replenished at the same rate, then you have a problem. You're off of the Edwards Aquifer right? All that well water taken out is not recharging the aquifer.

Its not surprising at all that people have strong opinions on this. Because I know first hand is buying land is not a decision to take lightly. So everyone is going to have a unique system of standards in which they make their decision.

The population density map shown is not very accurate in my opinion. Mostly because it is based on a near uniform shading from red to green. I would be more interested in seeing better resolution on where the actual per/mile density changes. On a grand scale, it does show the western half as less populated. As it rightly should, it does have less people and more area. For example, right now the my County shown on that population map has some yellowish green. But I wonder how that can be on 30,000 acre lake .

Because my county has such a small population, I am a bit reluctant to give too much information on the intarwebz. 5200 people live in the entire county. The unincorporated town I am closest to has a population of 113. When we move in, it will be 117. It received its low population rating based simply on a number of people per county in Texas. Loving County obviously won the #1 spot. Granted its not a big county in square miles either. But is not tiny either.

What works in my favor versus expanding populations is where I am at. Its about 100 minute drive to the Dallas area. But the entire county sits between two rivers. Because of this, it has always been underdeveloped because of the swampy and flood plain conditions. There are vast tracks of area here in which building homes under the slab "house farm" pattern just won't work. When combined with a strong active farming base because of excellent soil, owners do not want to break up and sell smaller tracts.


I noticed there was no comments regarding the issues financing land out in Concho Valley and Central Texas. You can say the place is great, but having to have $30-50k+ cash to be able to play out there is kinda tough to pull off. You need more down to buy land out there. Smaller tracts of land (less than 100 acres) are going to come with neighbors.

Its funny that we can discuss what features make a place great. But in all reality its money, purchase, and financing issues which dictate the most to where a Freesteader can go.

In North East Texas, one can do this for $44,490.00

http://www.chessherandassociates.com/farmranch.asp



This place is near where I am at. I checked it out, the nearest neighbor is about 1.5 miles away. It is surrounded by 120+ acre tracts in active cultivation. It's also 2 miles away from a 600 acre fully stocked lake.

See, it seems to me like it would be much easier for retiring career enlisted military to pull off a homestead in this region. Under 2 hours away is a diverse urban area which supports many jobs and careers. The low cost of the property on a 30 year note is also good. Because the land is good for farming, the banks will actually back a note on it. Unlike in West Texas where farm Ag/Credit lenders are far less willing to work with you.

Don't get me wrong. If I could afford it, I would move out to the greater San Angelo region. But I can't. So I found a different plan which seems to be working. But I would not be so bold as to say its better or worse than a different area. Just different.

Maybe I missed your explanation above, but I fail to see why it takes more money down out there than it does anywhere else, acre-for-acre.

Unless you are Daddy Big-Bucks, the bank will only lend you funds to purchase land that is within their appraisal value. In West Texas I have found that there are often tracts of real estate that look attractive and inexpensive. Often in the sub $750 per acre or less. The problem is the Ag/Credit lender of the region will decide what the value of the land is. And it is less than the asking price. This means to buy the land with the lender, you have to make up the difference if you want it. This means a larger down payment. For example, they may only think the property you want to buy at $750 per acre is only worth $500. So you have to make up the difference of $250 on every acre to possibly secure the note.

This is far more common than you think.

And this was before the sub-prime lending crap we are dealing with now. I could only imagine how much worse lenders will be these days handing out money.


Here is biggest single piece of advice I can give to anyone who is serious about buying raw land without a house on it (geared for the State of Texas). Find out who is the Ag/Credit or Farm Bank Lender(s) for the region. They often have territorial regions similar to the Texas Region Map shown above. Talk to them. Find out what they are willing to do with you before even looking at the first acre.

Many regions only have one Lender in town who will give you a loan for property. If its under 20 acres you can use a big Mortgage company like Countrywide ... oops. Are they gone now? But more than 40 acres is tough. You have to use a land bank. So find the lender who will work with you first.

If you have a bunch of assets and money, than buying land out there may not be as big of a deal.

But how is this specific only to land west of I-35?

I've actually found the opposite to be true in my area. Lenders seem willing to value the land at more than what the asking price is. We've been looking at property for years in this area and I know many people who have purchased land all in this area. What you describe above doesn't seem to ever have come up with anyone I know. *shrug*

I have encountered it on three separate parts of land, all were west of I-35. I freely acknowledge the possibility that this may be a freak and unusual thing to have happened to me. But it has been a major factor in making our decision making. The one thing I know in my case, is that I was looking for bargain property that I could actually afford. Which was in the $50-70k range for acreage only.

In my search in East and North East Texas, this has only happened once. It was on the land which bordered on the Trinity river which was in a flood plain.

Have the people who you know that purchased the land been in the Bandera/Hondo area? Or out in the middle of nowhere like way rural Concho Valley for example?

How many years ago? Was it in the past three? Also, was there some type of house or mobile home involved on the land? Or purely raw land? That detail changes everything in how lenders (and the Law) handles things.

And what I REALLY want to know, is how much harder is it now after the sub-prime notes going belly up?

My plans are to keep on the track we are on. Like others we are paying off debt. Truck will be paid off in April and that will only leave medical bills.
Right now we rent and will continue to do so for at least another year. Rent is silly cheap for where we live and that is allowing us to concentrate more on the bills.
We produce a fair amount of food from our garden and are getting better at home preservation. We don't envision ourselves as farmers, but we want to live more off of the land and further away from prepackaged, blank stare lifestyle.
Plans are to continue along the career paths we have, I work at a university in the facilities management dept, and my wife works at a home health agency as an aide.
With the sub-prime meltdown, it is harder (for us anyway) to get a home loan. A few banks have told us they would require a 30-35% down payment, but the credit union I belong to has told us that we qualify for "x" amount, as soon as the medical bills are paid down some more.
Financing for raw land is pretty hard to pull off if your not a farmer or in some agriculture based endeavor, so our plan is to find a house with some land. Around 10 acres is what we are shooting for, but we are keeping our eyes open.
We live in SoKY and would to continue to do so, but we are keeping the option open of moving to NoTN (on the Cumberland plateau over towards the Smokies) if something perfect pops up.

Well, we got out to see a couple places this weekend.
The farmhouse that I posted a picture of has expired, and is off the market, but I'm attempting to contact the owner directly. She has an unlisted #, but I found a relative of hers, and he gave me the # of her business. She should be there around 5pm, so maybe I'll talk to her then.
We looked at these places:

It has 15 acres m/l, and is near a huge lake. It has a pond, a barn, a corral, and I can shoot there.
It doesn't have a well, but it has two 50 gallon water heaters, and a vault under the front porch. ETA: I almost forgot, this one has no direct line of sight from the road, all you can see is a driveway going down around the hill. Thought that was worth mentioning.
Cheap too.

And


This place has 20 acres, two ponds, an in ground pool (some application for water storage), a barn, a corral, and it's fenced and cross fenced for livestock. That window over the garage is finished space, and it's at the end of a dead end road.
It is not cheap (about 100k more than the other).
They both need work.

I also found this place:
Polo, MO, Hardened Underground Communications vault on 10 acres (more or less), built in the 1960’s as a nuclear war-proof communications center, 8,800 sq. ft. usable floor space, 24” thick walls & ceiling, 2’ to 4’ of earth over, metal shield enveloping entire structure, two 1000 pound blast doors, 6 air vents with filtration and blast valve closure mechanisms, well on site, 10,000 gallon stainless steel water storage tank, escape hatch emergency exit, 177 ft. tower (a rental possibility). Lighting, pumps, fans, heating, cooling, dehumidification present in structure. Electric hoist operational.
Price: $299,000.00

My wife says she doesn't want to live in Polo, and that's understandable, but she has to see it from my perspective...I mean blast doors, come on now, how can we pass this one up?
I'll keep working on her. I want to at least go see it, just for fun.

Whatdya say Mike? Wanna go in halfsies with me? There are two blast doors, that's one each....

I talked to the lady that owns that old farmhouse.
After the last renters moved out, vandals came in and broke all the windows, tore out all the mechanicals, and it's been raining and snowing into it for the last three years. They want $200k for it. I think I'll pass, such a shame...

Let me offer a suggestion about fencing. Take cattle panels that come in different wire sizes and put four of them together to form a corral that can be moved every couple of days. The goats eat the grass down and then just pull them to a different spot. Works for us.
As for the Texas comments, I think where ever you find land cheap and resources available is a good spot. Some people can make it on nothing and others cant. Living all around the world I like to think I can adapt to everywhere. I guess its really in what your frame of mind is. We thought about moving but the land has been in her family for over a 100 years.

All things being equal, resources and land prices, Texas still wins hands down.

I still find the old arguemnet that Brady is the Heart of Texas funny too. As for llano I grew up near that little town catfishing off the bridge and later off the spillway when the water was down. That and all the way to Marble Falls (the best stage coach restraunt in the region). As for llano nice town but had my share as a kid of parties on the river. Every place can get dry but atleast the lakes are close. Tow Valley has a great winery. Llano valley winery. Grandparents lived near Lake Buchanan.