I really want to do concrete floors in my house. I'm considering stamped dyed concrete. Probably 2 or 3 patters throughout the house, all done when the foundation laid. From any of the research you guys know or have done (considering one of you is in the concrete industry, hint hint), what do you think about that option?

I'm in the concrete industry, but we do formwork for soffits, not top of slab finishes. In fact, finishing concrete is done by another subcontractor on our jobs. Besides, we do commercial construction where the slab finish is usually just a plain smooth finish, or a "light broom finish" at best. If they want something else, they usually install tile or other flooring on top of the concrete after we're off the job.

Having said that, you may recall (since you've been to my house) that we have bare concrete floors inside. The slab was troweled smooth when poured. Then they came in with a diamond blade saw and scored the top of concrete in a grid pattern to make it look sort of like tile. This is very easily done, and it's the same tool and process they use for doing control joints in large slabs. After the concrete was scored, it was dyed with a green concrete dye/finish. Since the concrete takes the dye in a non-uniform manner, it comes out looking sort of like marble. Not just a plain green floor, but with lots of discolorations and swirl patterns in it.

The stamped forms they use to put a pattern in the top of slabs can look great, but it has its drawbacks. It's expensive, for one. And a lot of them are made for outdoor use, so they're kind of a rough/uneven surface. Not exactly suited for putting furniture on. And if you want to lay down a rug later, it will feel lumpy even if you put a pad under it.

Concrete floors are easy to keep clean if they're smooth. If they're not, then they are hard to mop or put a polish on. And mark my words, your concrete slab will crack eventually. All concrete slabs do. So with bare concrete floors, you'll see every crack. Not to mention, concrete floors are COLD during the winter unless you've got the money to install an under-floor heater system that runs hot water through the slab.

If you ever drop something glass on your concrete floor, you'll find that the shards will skid all over the house. Or if you fall down for some reason, it really sucks.

Last but not least, concrete floors are hard on your legs and feet over time. If you or your wife have back problems, it's uncomfortable to be walking around all the time, barefoot, on a hard concrete floor. Or standing there cooking, doing dishes, etc. It sucks to have to wear shoes all the time in your own house. And our dog slips and slides all over the house on the concrete.

I do like our concrete floor, but over time we have ended up putting rugs in all the common areas. Not only because it's more comfortable to walk on but because it cuts down on echoes in the house and keeps it warmer in here during winter. The things I like about concrete flooring is that it's easy to keep clean (but only because it's smooth) and it's cheap. I'll never have to worry about carpet stains or pet dander, mildew, dust mites, or any other carpet-related issues.

One of these days, if I ever have the money for it, I'll probably put a wood floor over the concrete. I think wood flooring is probably the best option.

We're definitely putting rugs down, but given we have 2 critters, we have to keep the place clean. We're going to go with carpet squares over the hard floor. You ruin part of the carpet, just replace the square. can clean squares individually, make patterns, etc. Lots of advantages.

Now, Tobus, you're saying your floor was acid stained. I'm curious about the differences of that versus dying the mix at pouring. My understanding is that this is different. One is a topical treatment and the other is is volumetric. (Think more like the concrete path you made.)

Scoring is cheaper you say? Noted.

Yes, you're correct. Ours was acid stained after pouring. Just a topical treatment. Not the same as dyeing the concrete before pouring, like I did on my walkway. I would definitely think it's cheaper to acid stain the surface, since you'd waste a lot of dye in concrete that will never be seen. Plus, IMHO, the acid staining looks better since it gives a non-uniform look to the floor.

As for the scoring being cheaper, I will say that it is not something I've had actual cost comparisons done on. You should probably get a contractor to give you an estimate on both. But I'm 99% certain the scoring will be cheaper. The imprint stamping has to be done during the pour operation while the concrete is still in a semi-plastic state, and therefore requires an entire crew to do it as they pour. The scoring can be done by one man, a day or two after the pour.

I don't have a picture of just my floor, but here's a picture of my ugly dog, and you can see the floor behind her. You can see the lines that were scored by the diamond blade, in a grid pattern that makes it look like tile. You can also see the color patterns in the staining.

The main portion of our house is this green color. The bedrooms were done with an orange/brown color.

Do you guys not believe in having basements?

Very few houses in Texas have basements. Up in the northern areas of the State, maybe. But they really are more trouble than they're worth down here.

In my area, for example, it's the fact that you'd have to blast out the bedrock to install a basement that is the problem. In Houston, I recall the problem being highly expansive soil and a high water table. Out west where Nidrah lives, lots of people have storm shelters but still not a lot of honest-to-goodness basements. They just really don't serve much purpose down here.

How do you think the stained/dyed concrete compares to other flooring like wood and tile. The negatives you mentioned Tobus are the same for most all hard flooring.

What other kinds of floors should I really consider?

The last house I lived in when I was in the Houston area had all tile floors. I hated it. It's even worse than concrete. Lots of echoes, hurts your feet and back, etc. Cold wasn't much of an issue down there, though. But what made tile worse than concrete is that if you dropped anything, not only would it break the object you dropped but also the tile. It was a constant headache with broken/cracked tiles on the floor.

Wood flooring these days can be put down with a pad under it to give it some 'spring'. One of my wife's friends just had it installed in her house and she likes it a lot. I haven't been over to her house since it was installed, but she was raving about it over the weekend to us. It's easy to clean, isn't as noisy as concrete, isn't as hard on your legs and back, etc. Granted, it can scuff or scar easily. And it ain't cheap for a decent wood floor. But I love the looks of wood flooring, especially the rustic types, like knotty pine.

Of course, dollar for dollar, the cheapest thing to do is probably the acid stained concrete. And then just cover the areas you want with rugs.

In concrete, what would you do to try and match this slate tile: http://www.stonesunlimited.com/images/slate/BlackSlate.jpg

I'd think dyed concrete would have to be it. Here's what I see with black/ebony concrete stain results: http://www.stainedconcrete.org/images/600_vaughnvert.jpg

What say you?

That actually looks pretty good, as far as a concrete floor goes. Is that a stain applied afterwards, or a dye in the concrete when poured?

In doing my little paving stones for my sidewalk, I have been using black dye on some of them. It takes a lot of the dye to make the concrete look dark. And of course it lightens up as it cures. I'd think that dyed concrete would still have to have a topical treatment applied to make the surface actually look black.

As for making the surface of a concrete floor look a little rough like the slate tile, instead of smooth, that's all in how they finish it. Usually they'll pour it, screed it, and then trowel the finish smooth. On commercial jobs they actually have riding equipment to do this. But on a house slab, I'd think that instead of troweling off a smooth finish, you could probably have them trowel it a little uneven. Then come back and stain it and score it with the diamond blade for the tile look.

I like the wood laminate flooring that I've seen. You can't tell it's not real wood and it does have that pad to it. I just fear wood floors because it dictates your design palette to some degree and I'm not a wood texture person really.

I'm not so worried about getting the tile look, now that you've mentioned just cutting it, that seems like the right option. Think that could be done by oneself?

I'm mostly worried about the color and texture.

I guess I'll give up my source: http://www.flor.com/flor/images/shop_by_model/Reed.jpg

That's the style flooring I'm going for (the back tile area). I'm sure I can't afford to put slate flooring in my whole house. So I really want alternatives.

If you have the proper tool, I don't see why not. General contractors pay uneducated Mexicans who don't speak any English minimum wage to do it all the time.

It would definitely be a tool you'd have to rent, though. This is what they look like, and I think they use water as a lubricant/coolant when scoring the top of slab.



Worst case, I suppose, you would have to work it into your contract with the slab subcontractor or homebuilder, since he can probably get the equipment easier and already has someone who is skilled at using it.

I quite dislike concrete floors however, if you have to have one, do it like the floor Tobus has in his house.
I worked on a straw bale infill house once that had a concrete floor that was scored and stained as Tobus describes.

It is simply beautiful. I'm not sure but I think the dye was dusted ontop ( It's usually a powder, no? ) and floated while the concrete was still wet. When dry it was scored in a grid pattern. The swirling colors were fantastic. I have never before or since seen such a nice concrete floor. I could never float such a big pour so smooth. This floor was fantastic, but it was made by someone who specialized in concrete floors.

I have seen allot of owner built houses with concrete floors, and not one is smooth. I guess this is why I dislike them so much. But professionally done, they can be quite beautiful. I'd want to see a few sample floors a contractor has made before I'd trust him to do one for me though.

Eh, I don't think you'd need a saw as big as the one Tobus pictured, because your only cutting a shallow groove, maybe 1/2 inch deep.

Me, I like brick on sand. It's cheap, easy to do yourself, and easy to pull up and redo if you need to get at the plumbing or something. Jack-hammering up a concrete floor and repairing it is a royal pain, should it ever be needed.

Hands down the cheapest floor and the easiest on your feet is dirt.
Yeah yeah, I know y'all probably think I'm nuts, but it's true. Your feet are designed to walk on dirt!

The way Mike Oehler makes a dirt floor is to rake the floor smooth and remove any rocks or roots.
Then he puts down a layer of heavy plastic sheeting, and simply puts carpet down over that.
The floor is warm, resilient, and cheap. Getting at buried plumbing or electrical lines is as easy as rolling up the floor.

You can also lay down a "forever floor" over any wooden or concrete surface -



http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/lee92.html

I like those floors Etdbob. What the 90# roofing material they're talking about? I've only ever used sheets of plywood, felt paper and shingles.

ETA:

Is the forever floor something one can do themselves? What about staining Tobus? Can one do that themselves reasonably? (Didn't the guy you bought the house from build it? Did he just do the house itself or did he go though contractors?)

The house was built by a local company who specializes in this type of construction (steel-framed house with styrofoam pre-fab walls). I'm not sure who put the slab in, but the home owner (who I bought the house from) did the staining himself. As well as the scoring, I believe. Then again, he did a lot of custom work to the house as well, so I think he was probably working alongside the other trades and generally annoying the piss out of them.


Actually, control joints and the scored "tile" look in my house are usually only scored between 1/8" and 1/4" deep. And they still use those big machines. Granted, part of it is because the machine sprays water as they cut. It holds down concrete dust from getting everywhere and prolongs the life of the machine/blade. For a one-time use, you might be able to do this with a heavy-duty Skil saw and a special blade. I dunno, I haven't tried that. Trying to do it on the cheap, though, could turn a four-hour job into a two-week job. And that will cost way more in the long run if it holds up the rest of the construction or interior work. Not to mention, a smaller tool can skip around, messing up the nice exposed floor. Or even a little bit of wiggle when doing the scoring can cause the concrete to spall on either side of the cut.

It's kind of like milling work on metal. It needs a large, heavy machine that is stable and can do its work without any muscle effort from the user. If it were me, and I were going to do it, I'd get the right tool for the job. You only get one shot at it. If you fuck it up, you don't have many options other than to cover it with something.

Ever see roll roofing? That's what he's talking about. You'll have to build a "forever floor" yourself, because any contractor you ask to build it for you will simply laugh at you.

The "forever floor" is really handy for rebuiling an existing floor. It's cheaper than any linolium or other floor covering.
I'm not sure how cheap such a floor would be to put into a new building. It has to be built on top of something - So you'll still need that concrete slab or a wood floor. A stained concrete floor would cost less, and would certainly be more durable.

Tobus, so the slab was stained after it was dry? That sounds much easier than swirling the colors in during the final finishing of the slab. I'd be interested in seeing a picture of your floor. I've never seen concrete stains for use after the concrete was dry.

There's a picture of my floor above in this thread.

As Nidrah stated, it was an acid mix. Yes, it was done after the concrete was cured (concrete doesn't "dry"). The acid is able to penetrate the cured concrete and stain it. The variable pattern in it probably isn't as durable or pretty as a true dye that's done by swirling it into the mix when finishing the slab. But the pattern is achieved simply by the ability of the concrete to soak up the stain.

With the acid stain method, you can do lots of different colors in different areas. As I mentioned above, my bedrooms were done in an orange color while the main portions of the house were done in a green color.

Maybe I'll snap some pics tonight if I remember.